Friday, March 2, 2012

Blurring the lines

Whenever i'm flying around New Eden, I always pay attention to the traffic.  I usually don't pay a ton of active attention to it, but if I see a freighter flying past, I look at what alliance it is and look at the pipe its traveling down.  If I see a large gang flying through empire, I take a look at what alliance/corp they are, if they're war dec'd, and ponder where they could be headed.

I recently saw a rather large shield gang near Jita.  I quickly checked their alliance descriptions, but couldn't really find where they were primarily based.  No war decs or faction warfare, had a handful of WH and nullsec kills, but not really much lowsec.  I bookmarked a few of them and will check killboards later to see where their gang went splat, but I was mostly curious what kind of corp they were to be putting a gang together like that and flying through empire, especially since it was complete with Scimitars, Lachesis, and Huginns.  Definitely not the typical fleet flavor you see and even more confounding when you look at their alliances complete lack of kills.

Anyways, this led me to take a look into their individual corp descriptions and I started noticing a common theme, which was "anti-piracy" and brings me to my next point.

I don't understand groups that advocate "anti-piracy" and still choose to PVP.  As far as i'm concerned, they're the same thing.  Sure, the romanticized view is that when you take a gang out you're fighting people that are willing to PVP so its somehow consensual, but that naivety quickly breaks down when your nullsec roam comes across someone hauling stuff and you quickly vape them.  How is that any different other than the security status of the system?  Basically, what you're saying is that its ok to shoot targets when you're in hunting mode, but if you come across something and you're not on an alliance sanctioned PVP OP, then its piracy.

An alliance mate I was talking to about this suggested that they think they're making a "space difference" as he put it and I find it hard not to agree.  Sure a lot of people may hate people whose goal is to make ships explode everytime they log on, but at least there's no illusion as to why were here.  This is the problem I also have with CVA's NRDS policy, is that while it looks good on paper and a neat little concept, the reality of it is that its arbitrarily enforced.  There are many documented cases of faked logs showing false aggression and flat out lies, to get someone on the KoS list.

I realize I might be getting a little too hung up on the label of "piracy" as surely its meant in the context of lowsec, and it works when the group doesn't PVP, but it just gets downright absurd when that same group goes on lowsec roams only to shoot at pirates and refuses to shoot at non-flashy gangs until they aggress first, even though they're probably there to pew in the first place.

The truth is, EVE is a PVP arena regardless of the security status, people just don't realize this.  I'm not saying this because this is how I play EVE, i'm saying this because its the truth.  Compare EVE to Battlefield 3, with highsec being the spawn point.  Sure you're "safe", but you can still be killed.  Anti-piracy rules and the concept of consensual and non-consensual PVP would be the equivalent of creating server rules where if you see someone running to get into a vehicle you're not allowed to shoot them until they get in, or you are not allowed to shoot people in the back, THEN going onto other servers and complaining that the rules are different.  Maybe a better analogy would be someone that complains about the morality of prostitutes, but then goes to a strip club and defends the girls by saying that lots of them have "goals" and its only a temporary thing for them, pure denial.


tldr: People that follow anti-piracy rules but then choose to PVP other times and claim that its "different" are in denial.  Making a "space difference", LOL.


  1. "but it just gets downright absurd when that same group goes on lowsec roams only to shoot at pirates and refuses to shoot at non-flashy gangs until they aggress first, even though they're probably there to pew in the first place."
    lol I went on a CAS Combat Guild Roam the other day... they are same engagement policy "we're not GCCing, only shoot flashies or if aggressed first."

    I think the whole sec status/GCC thing is kinda fucked to begin with... and honestly it's a big part of the reason I went to null -- guilt-free PvP. No worries about sec status and grinding back up, etc, just go forth and pew whatever's not blue.
    One of my way earlier blog entries was about this very topic -- how pretty much if you wanted to be involved with PvP but not have to worry about being flashy or grinding sec status back up, you basically had two options: sov warrioring, or faction warrioring, or joining one of the alliances active in NPC null.

    Then again, EVE's definition of "piracy" is pretty shitty overall too. I could have a hundred reasons for GCCing vs someone in lowsec, and 99% of those have NOTHING to do with stealing loot or holding the ship/pod for ransom (which are really the only acts that constitute "actual" piracy in EVE).

    Really, "anti-piracy" is a kind of a death rattle, the last agonal breaths of "lolRP" in EVE.

    I used to have a lil cutesy thing in my bio about the fact that the difference between NRDS and NBSI was 4 extra mouse clicks, and that's about it. <--- I still think this is true. lol

  2. i always felt anti-piracy was solely an RP thing, like hong said.

  3. See, I used to think that for the most part as well, until I started looking and realizing how many "new" player groups have anti-piracy rules. For example, Agony Unleashed has an anti-piracy policy fr their pilots. I understand the importance of this from the standpoint of you don't want your pilots going below -2.0, but at the same time as part of the new player experience its an important thing to learn and be a part of.

    As far as the new player experience is concerned, you really have to learn by doing, which can be harsh but at the same time its quite confusing. I recall it took me almost a year to figure out what I could and could not shoot at with enough comfort that concord or gate guns wouldn't come after me.

  4. "For example, Agony Unleashed has an anti-piracy policy fr their pilots."
    Well yes, but again, Agony is based in nullsec. Sec status hits and GCCs for them are not an issue so long as they remain in their nullsec turf.
    I agree that having a good working knowledge of lolsex, sec mechanics, etc, is vital to a PvP existence in this game, period. Even if you live mainly in null, chances are you cross low at some point to get between high and home.

    Also, the anti-pirate groups I've seen are a lil more strict than "thou shalt not steal or ransom, or be flashy" -- I've seen some corps that are basically "thou shalt not be neg sec status at any time for any reason, nor shalt thou fire unless fired upon."

    I guess it gives them some sense of :smug: or :moralhighground: or something? Guess you'd have to drag a few in here to explain themselves to us? Should start with Electus

    Susan Black (gamerchick42) posted a long while back about how she and her corpies are flashy. They shoot anybody. Well they were in a Min Militia fleet, roaming and looking to shoot Amarr militia. Well an EM fleet encountered them, started shooting the flashies in the Min Militia fleet, and were asked to desist by the Min Mil FC.
    When they didn't, the rest of the militia fleet opened fire on the EM guys and popped them. Apparently this led to much drama and many :RPtears:, etc.

    Then again, at least they lived up to their "anti-pirate" stance, even if it meant getting popped. Most of the "anti-pirate" corps I've seen say "anti-pirate" but really mean "no pirates allowed" -- they won't actively search out, fight, or attack flashies either, unless attacked first.

  5. Oh man, good story about EM and the Winmatar Militia. Thanks for sharing. IMO it really goes to show the issue why RP of any sort has a hard time fitting in with EVE, which is how poorly RP of any sort fits in with EVE's game mechanics and the nature of the game itself.