tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post7919957126490297645..comments2023-03-28T20:53:51.212-07:00Comments on The moar you cry the less you pee: UncreativePinky Feldmanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14743850109590575848noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post-61579824986884046032012-04-05T18:38:13.928-07:002012-04-05T18:38:13.928-07:00Maybe this metaphor will ring some bells:
In null...Maybe this metaphor will ring some bells:<br /><br />In nullsec and lowsec, it's little posses of circus clowns in different colored uniforms, chasing each other about and creaming each other with pies having a jolly time. Sometimes fifty clowns will jump out of a dumpster and maul ten clowns, and that's OK. Sometimes eight hundred clowns will come galloping down the street and absolutely pulverize that poor gang of fifty clowns. But that's all fine, because out there everyone is required to wear a clown nose and all the other clowns already know what's going on.<br /><br />But in hisec, there are hundreds of normal people who are not clowns at all. You might walk into a big room with two hundred people and not see any other clowns at all. But if you're from nullsec, sometimes there will be a few clowns in the room or in rooms nearby trying to pie you. This sounds like it could be fun as long as you don't accidentally pie a policeman or something.<br /><br />To the nullsec clown's neverending frustration, it often turns out to be very different. Sometimes -dozens- of those normal people milling about are actively aiding and abetting the clowns that are hunting you. None of your own friends could ever be seen in normal garb or they would be ostracized, so you find yourself outnumbered and bewildered. You are surrounded by civilians whose faces you don't know, and if you ever get into a scrap with the enemy clown you'll probably get pushed about while he pies you and all his plainclothes friends knock your own pies out of your hand and jeer, putting on their own clown noses for fifteen minutes and running away. If you bring enough friends you could probably come up with some tactics that might work sometimes, maybe bring some long sticks to push them away, but it takes a lot of dedication and you never know that they won't just get more plainclothes friends.<br /><br />It's honestly kind of disheartening from that perspective.Iam Widdershinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15376224623226261057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post-80985597219181073832012-04-05T18:22:07.997-07:002012-04-05T18:22:07.997-07:00Logistics in hisec are actually quite a bit differ...Logistics in hisec are actually quite a bit different from logistics in nullsec, for one reason: they can hide in local. They are very difficult or impossible to find before they light up, and they certainly CAN'T BE SHOT AT before they are already repping. In contrast, nullsec logi mostly has to run with the gang because they're visible anyway. Fleets run with reasonable numbers of them because only so many logi are actually going to help, while the rest may as well just be flying combat ships.<br /><br />As has been most recently discussed by CCP, the upcoming changes to logistics will change this quite a bit. Either logistics must be in the same corporation as the attackers (and therefore readily visible in local), or they must be ready to go suspect and get shot by absolutely anyone who happens to feel like it. This forces a degree cohesion and risk that is currently not present in the 'richest' hisec pvp groups; someone like GOD SQUAD or Moar Tears may have as many as double their gang's numbers in logistics, with no particular commitment to use them in any engagement whether or not they are present.<br /><br />After the changes, if these groups don't pussy out and 'go to 0.0' because they 'ruined hisec PVP,' they will still be among the strongest groups around, and with some basic adaptability they will be able to field some fierce gangs -- with the caveat that their logistics will probably be visible, both in local and immediately on the field. It's entirely up to them whether they want to adapt to this new environment and move towards a more balanced composition, perhaps a couple neutral scouts and a couple characters that mostly fly combat ships but CAN fly logistics, that regularly work in pairs to actually get stuff done in a gang that doesn't make the enemy throw their hands up in the air in despair.<br /><br />I think it also needs to be said, for everyone's edification: Coming to hisec to PVP isn't entirely fair. Sure, there are a lot of things that the enemy CAN do to fight, and if they were to bring a sexy combination of ECM and alpha and damps and do everything really well they would indeed be able to face up most of our gangs. But I don't think it is entirely fair or wise to continue on the hard-line approach that it is already completely fair and balanced: it isn't. One of the main home-turf advantages of living in hisec and fighting nullsec alliances is that in nullsec, you can't just invest in a couple alts and throw them about willy nilly in random alt corps with silly names that could never be found in a busy local. You need to have them in an organization that is strictly of blue standings with your parent alliance, holders, and allies or you're gonna get shot out of the sky and constantly reported as an enemy in intel channels unless you never, ever go to nullsec with that character. So they are already forced to be cohesive and visible in local and in combat, even in hisec, and this is a serious disadvantage to them when they come to fight in hisec. Once the PVP-savvy hisec dwellers are forced to do the same, I think they will all be much more willing to bring actual fights to hisec, where they will have a far better idea what they are actually going up against when they enter a system and see five WTs in local.Iam Widdershinshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15376224623226261057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post-83008347795409981032012-04-05T10:30:24.279-07:002012-04-05T10:30:24.279-07:00Those are good points.
Suprisingly regarding the ...Those are good points.<br /><br />Suprisingly regarding the upcoming neutral RR changes, a lot of us applaud the opportunity for it to un-cheese station games and 1v1s.<br /><br />One thing regarding logi, that suprises me is how few groups bring their own logistics to fight us. I can literally count on one hand the amount of time we've fought a non-hisec group and they actually brough logi. We generaly don't have blistering DPS and a handful of dedicatedly flown logistics ships would easily be able to shut us down.<br /><br />I think a common misconception is that being a good PVPer is something that transcends playstyles and the security of the space and that a great PVPer will be amazing anywhere they go. Tactics are different everywhere you go and part of being a good pilot is knowing how to adjust accordingly.<br /><br />With that being said, I kind of do wish we had more small gang fights in hisec, but in my experience when people form up against us they tend to wait until they have a large enough gang that no sane person would want to engage because thats all they know, mind you we're used to fighting outnumbered and have no problem doing so.Pinky Feldmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14743850109590575848noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post-65776200669601559482012-04-05T09:23:41.390-07:002012-04-05T09:23:41.390-07:00While I'm thinking about it, you're absolu...While I'm thinking about it, you're absolutely right about the "uncreative" part.<br />"Doctrinal warfare"? Yeah. You don't even have to figure out your own fits, just look in the corp fitting folder for appropriate "doctrine" fit, buy appropriate hulls and mods, and hit "fit".<br />Significant variations from the approved "doctrine" fit are VERY severely looked down upon in null. :-/Hong WeiLohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702284760088727892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post-12578790673806580702012-04-05T09:06:54.265-07:002012-04-05T09:06:54.265-07:00" Its like the girl who continually gets brok..." Its like the girl who continually gets broken up with because she's a selfish bitch, yet is unable to consciously accept the fact that she might actually be a selfish bitch, and instead concludes that she can't be the one to blame and it must be the guy's fault. Meanwhile, all of her friends console her by affirming that things aren't her fault and she is beautiful and awesome and is so much better than the guy and he is missing out."<br /><br />^^ I know it's not _that_ related, but I LOL'd hard because I've dated this, and see it on a regular basis.<br /><br />Then again, it all comes back to that horrible N-word I throw around so much these days. No, not that one. Narcissism.<br />Sadly it seems to be very, VERY prevalent in EVE. I think the overall "idea" of the game tends to attract that mindset like hyenas to dead gazelle.<br />lol Thinking about that a second, that's actually a pretty apt comparison. A Hyena follows a true killer around, and profits by the "real" killer's work, which, as you've said twice now and I'm agreeing to twice, is kinda what a lot of nullseccers do. Follow the FC, target who he says, shoot who he says, get on the killmails and look :awesome: with 98% ISK efficiency (yeah, see why I said on your last post that I disagree about "ISK efficiency as a measure of PvP ability is :workingasintended:"??) ... which immediately drops to 50% ISK efficiency if they try going out solo or small-gang a few times in anything more expensive than a T1 BC. ;-)Hong WeiLohhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14702284760088727892noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-188390756370405242.post-22127736186954416482012-04-05T08:46:52.655-07:002012-04-05T08:46:52.655-07:00As annoying as I think neutral RR is, it's not...As annoying as I think neutral RR is, it's not really any different from logi in null. Logi is Logi, they key lies in expecting it. A quick look on the field in hi-sec outside of Hek, for example can show you if there's possible neutral RR waiting to help out the pilot asking for 1v1 and dropping a can. In null sec, kinda the same thing except with dscan, and restricting RR to logi ships instead of say RR Phoons or whatever.<br /><br />That said, I don't consider much of null to be very good at PvP either, including myself. The ones that are good in my opinion are the guys that live in NPC null usually, or low-sec. The sheer number of fights they get in small-ish gangs just makes them alot better (via experience) than the rest of us running around in 25 man+ gangs out in null.Truen1ghthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14658827203515387622noreply@blogger.com